thread Is it demeaning though?
Slightly condescending, perhaps, but any condescension was more than likely well earned.
permalink Yes.
It demeans the women who won an award. By saying that all men are northern power men it means the women who were recognised as norther power women are special because they're as good as the average man.

It also says that they're only winning an award because of a gender pay gap and domestic violence, not because of their achievements.

It demeans men who are victims of domestic violence. It's saying that men don't get an award because women are victoms of domestic violence. One in three victims of domestic violence are men, but they don't count.

It demeans men who earn less than average, which is the majority of men in Wigan. Women who earn less because of a situation beyond their control deserve recognition. Men who earn less because of a situation beyond their control don't.

permalink Fair enough
Obviously my outrageometer hasn't warmed up this morning. There was me thinking it was just a twatter reply to some mens' rights idiot.
permalink Right, but when you retweet and comment rather than just reply
it makes it a lot more visible, and so you should be more careful with your reply.

It's easy enough to make a men's rights comment looks silly without reverting to the tone Wigan council used.
permalink I thought
you'd left reddit
permalink That's why I have to turn to twitter
to be able to argue anonymously with idiots.
permalink you can do that here too
except we know who you are.
permalink I fell quite strongly that awards for women in business are just bullshit.
You are not better at business because you have a penis.

If we had awards for brunettes in business that would be bullshit too.

At the other end of the same scale you have Venus saying she is the best tennis player, not the best female tennis player and she just is not, so that is bullshit too.

We should have awards which are for all to enter. You could then pick out of that who was the best man or the best woman, if you wanted, but we should not be saying 'women in law' as if that were a special thing. A woman barrister is the same as a man barrister. It is all very silly. Why not let all athletes just compete against each other?
permalink I think it depends on the discipline
as someone who works in the convergence of two extremely male-dominated fields, and can witness day-to-day the absolutely obvious handicaps and obstacles that women face, I have absolutely no problem at all with specific funding, awards and initiatives that are only available to women. If opportunities were balanced then I would take issue with gender-specific funding, but unfortunately things are run by older men who are blissfully unaware of their subconscious misogyny. Women are held to higher standards on everything.

In fields like law, if you have awards which are for all to enter, then it just becomes another old boys club. That's why you need women-specific awards. It's sad but still true.

If you happen to inhabit a sector which has true equal opportunities, then great for you! I definitely don't, and I don't think most professional disciplines in this country are very equal at all. Thus, intervention and support is necessary to help things progress towards that ideal.

What depresses me is that each generation is meant to be more enlightened about these things than the last, and things will be better once the Old Men Who Run Things retire. But we're now seeing a younger generation of men appear who seem to be more sexist, racist and bigoted than their elders, who are consciously misogynistic. I'm interested in what we do about them.
permalink I've got
a few ideas.
permalink That said
the younger younger generation - ie teenagers and early twenties - have grown up with a lot more information at their fingertips, so hopefully that'll help in the long run. Maybe not short enough for us though.
permalink I heard it said
that we now have an adult generation who grew up with youtube comments
permalink Urgh
that can't be a good thing.
permalink I agree with all you say with regard to the disappointment I feel in our current leadership.
The old boys just did not think of women at all - the current cohort do think about it, which makes their behaviour deliberate.

I always feel like women's awards are a bit condescending. 'You did really well, for a girl'. Perhaps if we just made sure we considered the extra barriers to achievement when awarding them? Ideally we would not need quotas or funding, but we do - we need to make it normal, so that we start seeing it in action and recognising that gender imbalance (in every direction) is bullshit.

For sport, in particular though, it is an odd one. Why do we have campaigns for women's events to be paid as much as men's events? Why not have one event and then pick out the woman who came top for a smaller prize, as well as her being in the running for the main 'elite' prize, which is not gender specific.

I know we would then see very few woman in the tennis finals, but then we see very few weedy men or fat fucks like me either.
permalink In the case of awards
I would say it would only be condescending if it were men doing awarding (which it sometimes is)

But everyone knows awards (gender-specific or otherwise) are a load of nonsense - the ceremonies just exist as networking piss-ups, and it's a good thing for women to have some of those without men present, that's the kind of stuff that creates other opportunities without further intervention.

I don't really have an opinion on the sports stuff, as elite level sport is all a bit silly to begin with, and like you say, inherently ablist anyway. I'd pay-per-view for the Fat Fuck Olympics though.
permalink I think an event where it is all women is negative for creating opportunities - you want the men
there to see it.

I also think that if men are not involved in the awarding (or rather, if men are excluded) then you again run the risk of devaluing the awards.
permalink The purpose of highlighting the achievement of a minority
within a majority is to normalize it. If we spend time talking about women business leaders then it becomes normal to have women business leaders. Eventually it won't be necessary.

I don't know if businesses in the north are predominantly run by men, I don't really care.
permalink Woman are not a minority
they are a majority.
permalink only in developed countries and by taking into account longevity
globally in total, and by both birth rate and for every demographic under 65 in the UK, males outnumber females
permalink Globally in total?

More births are male, but males are far more likely to die.
permalink Well bugger me!
That said, in the UK they are a majority and at 49.5% of the population they are not a minority in any meaningful sense.

We have inequalities which need addressing, but they are not the same inequalities (in a democracy) that minorities face. Women are not powerless to effect change
permalink they're a minority
in all the insitutions which effect change - national and local government, company boards, management, academia, political party membership etc etc etc
permalink This is very true.
It is why I do not eschew quotas in the short term.
permalink But what about quokkas?
Do you not eschew quokkas?
permalink Who among us can say we don't eschew quokkas?
I know I can't.
permalink Indeed
I mean, look at their little faces!

permalink He's a happy little
Setonix Brachyurus, and no mistake
permalink I misread that for a second and thought the genus was
permalink it's not general mortality but just longevity
there's a lot more women in the pension queue, which balances things out in total, but in every other aspect there's more men. I agree it's close enough not to matter
permalink I specified "women business leaders".
They aren't a majority.